Curse

Guildmaster Cain · Apr 05, 2007, 01:01 PM // 13:01

The armors of the Enchanted from the forgotten look like Mursaat armors. So maybe the Mursaat lost all their physical damage people in some war. The forgotten found their armor and animated them to use them for physical damage purposes.
The Mursaat had to resupply their army with new recruits and found these Jade beings usefull.

In other news: the Mursaat might just have been pawns in the game of Abaddon. Same as the treacherous Glint who was said to work for the gods (but which???)

Mursaat dont believe in the Five, nobody knows why.
Margonites dont believe in the Five, because they serve Abaddon.

Sophitia Leafblade · Apr 05, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

Jades

Points of Note: Jades look very similar to Margonites and Abaddon
Possible Explanations:

The Mursaat found them in the ruins of the mysterious Architecture and bound them to themselves.

The Mursaat used the ruins to discover how to create them to help them keep the Door closed

The Mursaat were former followers of Abaddon when he was with the other gods and made the Jades in his image but turned there backs on him when he turned on the other gods.

The Mursaat made the Jades to Look Like Abaddon because they (still) worship him.

Mursaat, Margonites and Seers

Points of Note: Mursaat, Margonites and Seers look very similar
Possible Explanations:

All 3 Races evolved from a common ancestor eg. like Leopards and Snow Leopards.

They are different Ethnicities of the Same race just like humans have varying Ethnicities.

They could be a different sexs. For all we know the Mursaat could be Females of the species and the Seers the males of the species, alot of species have differing appearences for males and females.

Perhaps the Mursaat would be Ascended ones of the species (eg Angels allied to the 5 Gods) while the Margonites did a similar thing but opposite by siding with Abaddon (demons).

Margonites could be Tainted Mursaat or Forgotten transformed by the powers of Abaddon

It Appears that Margonites are Created by Abaddon, they are not a natural creatures, As seen by Varesh becoming a Margonite So presumably this explains why The Margonite on the Ship that was being hunted by the Forgotten is called 'First of the margonites' Evidently this was the 1st person/creature to be turned into a margonite. it is then possible the Mursaat looking Margonites were once infact Mursaats that were transformed by Abaddon or Forgotten aligned with him that conflicted with the Forgotten Linked to the 5 Gods.

The Margonites could be a separate Race that only became to look like they currently due o Abaddon Ascending them in his own image and any similarities with the other races are just coincidence

Points of Note: The Titans wiped out the Mursaat and the Titans Worked for Abaddon
Possible Explanations:

They could both be aligned to Abaddon and simply not get along although I doubt this since the Mursaat would be a power ally and to let them get wiped out isn’t very effective unless Tainted Mursaat could become Margonites in which case it would make sence but then the Mursaat would probably go voluntarily unless they preferred there current forms. Perhaps the Killing of the chosen was infact a way to send souls to Abaddon to make more Titans for his army and had nothing to do with powering the soul batterys and they infact were only near to the Door since they wanted to open it but were unable to do so since they weren’t Chosen. However if they were aligned to Abaddon they could have easily taken over Tryia with there powerful magics (unless the powers of the 5 gods prevented this)

The Mursaat could be Neutral and only Care about themselves, and in fear of Abaddon ie the prophecies etc. they made sure his forces couldn’t get into the lands which annoyed Abaddon and so they became his 1st target. This could be the reason they live in a hidden city, they live in fear of being wiped out, or they simply don’t care about the other races (they like isolation except when they really have to make appearance) they used the White mantle for the own ends to keep the soul batteries charged (since the defeat of Kryta meant no chosen) and it stopped the followers of the Titans ie. The Charr from finding their Nearby City (since the Charr never got that far into Kryta.)

The Mursaat could have actually been good. IT is worth to note no Mursaat appears in the Realm of Torment where Abaddons followers dwelled and any soul corrupted by Abaddon appears (Note also no person killed by Mursaat appeared here either) They helped Save the Kingdoms of Tryia once the Charr threat became apparent (they saved Ascalon indirectly since the Charr would have returned to finish Ascalon once the Krytian army was defeated)

Points of Note: Architecture that appears in the Fire Isle, Bloodstones and in some of the RoT are identical
Possible Explanations:

It could be Mursaat architecture. It crops up around points that link to the gods, eg. they have contructed things around some of the blood stones, they protect the Door of Komalie, they also have architechure in RoT and DoA, this could be because they helped the gods create the prision for Abaddon and him getting the titans to kill them weakened there magic keeping Abaddon locked away (thus allowing him to become stronger in the mortal realm, thus allowing him to ressurect Shiro as his envoy and possibly to spawn Oni(i always wondered where they came from.)) The mursaat are involved with most of the sites where that artitecture is.

It could have been Forgotten Architecture since the Forgotten are known to work for the 5 gods and they were in charge of the Realm of Torment Before Abaddon took over and the door of Komalie (where some of the architecture appears) is the only known doorway in and out of the Realm.

It Couldn’t be the Margonites since the bloodstones were in the volcano, they were just stones then they had no architecture on them. The stones only reappeared in recent years meaning that the construction on the stones was a recent thing, the margonites and Abaddon were long gone by then. Unless the Mursaat simply found the architecture and expanded upon it using there magic since it was superior to there architecture.

Titans

Points of Note: Titans are said to be corrupted Souls, They obeyed the Sceptre of Orr a staff with Powers over the dead
Possible Explanation:

The Titans are corrupted Souls tainted by Abaddons Influence who could take on aspects of there surrounding inorder to create a body. They are turned from corrupt Souls into Titans in the Foundry of Failed Creations whioch is the other side of the Door of Komalie.

Points of Note: The Titans were the only forces of Abaddon sent through during prophecies.
Possible Explanations:

The Titans were engineered weapons designed to Wipe out the Mursaat who would have defeated any Demons or Margonites sent through by Abaddon.

The Door was closed before any other forces could mobilise and come through the Door and the Titans just happened to be the nearest forces to the Door.

The Titans were the cannon fodder sent in to weaken the enemies before the more important forces were sent through.

Abaddons Strength wasn’t yet enough for him so send other forces through the Door since the Titans were just tormented souls which made it easier for them to cross.

Forgotten and Enchanted

Points of Note: Enchanted look Suspiciously like Luxon armor.
Possible Explanation:

We know the dessert was once a sea and we know luxons were once a seafaring people and according to wiki there is evidence the luxons visited the Crystal Dessert. So could that mean the enchanted are ancient animated luxon armors?

Soul Batteries

Points of Note: The White Mantle began only during the Seering which was 2 years ago so ho did the soul Batteries keep charged before then?
Possible Explanations:

The Batteries didn’t need charging until Abaddon began straining them.

The Batteries didn’t need charging until tainted Souls from the touch of Abaddon started being drawn to the Door to enter the Realm of Torment (such as The victims of Orr and the Charr)

The Mursaat Sacrificed themselves on the Stones in order to charge them but began to run out of Chosen ones within there own species. An so used the Eye of their City (aka Janthir) to find chosen in other species

The Forgotten or another species or Group such as the Druids used to kidnap Chosen and use them to power the Batteries.

There are other ways of Empowering the Batteries but they were no longer possible or powerful enough to keep the Batteries fully charged.

Cebe · Apr 05, 2007, 02:01 PM // 14:01

You really have been busy! - I love your theories, Soph

Question time:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

The Margonite on the Ship that was being hunted by the Forgotten is called 'First of the margonites'

Umm... eh? I've evidently missed something here. What ship? Where? Why? ... "eh?". (I tend not to read quest dialogue etc

- lazyness ftw.)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

We know the dessert was once a sea and we know luxons were once a seafaring people and according to wiki there is evidence the luxons visited the Crystal Dessert. So could that mean the enchanted are ancient animated luxon armors?

Personally I was liking some other theory about the enchanted. That one where if you look at Enchanted armor, and the gold armor actually worn by mursaat they are very similar, down to the inscriptions on the breastplates, the "wings", the helm... I see more similarities with that than with luxon armor...Maybe the Mursaat were luxons!

Maybe Elder Rhea's distant relative is Wilma the Unpleasant

lol @ "Uncle Sarlic", "Auntie Wilma", "Cousin Cairn"....I'll shut up now.

Sophitia Leafblade · Apr 05, 2007, 02:11 PM // 14:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Umm... eh? I've evidently missed something here. What ship? Where? Why? ... "eh?". (I tend not to read quest dialogue etc

- lazyness ftw.)

I know uve not been much into the Domain of Anguish in RoT so the easiest way is too look here:
http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Lord_Jadoth

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

Personally I was liking some other theory about the enchanted. That one where if you look at Enchanted armor, and the gold armor actually worn by mursaat they are very similar, down to the inscriptions on the breastplates, the "wings", the helm... I see more similarities with that than with luxon armor...Maybe the Mursaat were luxons!

Maybe Elder Rhea's distant relative is Wilma the Unpleasant

hmm i like the idea behind ur thinking, i may have to add that theory in.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

lol @ "Uncle Sarlic", "Auntie Wilma", "Cousin Cairn"....I'll shut up now.

rofl

Guildmaster Cain · Apr 05, 2007, 04:20 PM // 16:20

I think the Enchanted look more like the mursaat then the Luxon armor:

Someone even mentioned it on wiki: http://gw.gamewikis.org/wiki/Enchanted

Look at the head, arms and boots in particular.

The fact that Mursaat casters look similar to Margonite Necromancers might be due to Anet developers being lazy. It just uses the same model but different skin, just like a Charr Axe Fiend has the same model as a Flesh Golem...

Numa Pompilius · Apr 30, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

Apologies if this has been discussed - has it been explained howcome jade armors have six eyes just like Abaddon and the Margonites?

As animated armors in Guild Wars are animated by binding a soul in them - were the jade armors made by the Mursaat by binding the souls of Margonites in armor?

(And the animated armors in the crystal desert - were they made by the Forgotten by binding Shadow troops in armor?)

Desolation · Apr 30, 2007, 04:36 AM // 04:36

my tarantula has 6 eyes aswell is he releated to them?

Sophitia Leafblade · Apr 30, 2007, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Heres a link to a thread about this

http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10138952

Numa Pompilius · Apr 30, 2007, 11:58 AM // 11:58

Hmm... The conclusion seems to be that no-one knows for sure, but some other had the same speculation I do (that the jade are powered by Margonite souls).

Onarik Amrak · May 01, 2007, 01:12 PM // 13:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Numa Pompilius

Hmm... The conclusion seems to be that no-one knows for sure, but some other had the same speculation I do (that the jade are powered by Margonite souls).

I think that's very probable in the past Margonite souls were used, like when the Margonites were in the Crystal Desert because of how the Mursaat are so fearful of Chosen and them Ascending.

However, I think it's also likely that in present time, many Jades are just powered by souls in general (ie. Human).

SotiCoto · May 04, 2007, 01:47 PM // 13:47

Seen it, been there, said that.

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 13, 2007, 12:03 PM // 12:03

It suddenly just dawned on me. We know the Gods can be usurped and replaced and it has happened several times in the past. We know Abaddon looks like a Jade. (can you see where im going here?)

What if the connection between the looks is in Fact Abaddon was once a Jade!!!!

He Usurped the former god and took his place and powers!(either with or without help)

He could have then used his powers to warped some of the mursaat who agreed to follow him into margonites which are more in his image (or gradually his follows became that way due to his corruption) Just because the other Gods are depicted as Human like doesnt mean only humans can become Gods (Abaddon clearly doesnt look human like)

His possible Betrayal of his former Mursaat masters/companions or such like(depending on the relationship between Jades and Mursaat) could be why he Hated them so much and why they feared him so much.

OMG i cant beleive i didnt think of it earlier

mazik · Jun 13, 2007, 01:38 PM // 13:38

I find that a little hard to believe to eb honest:\(Abaddon being a Jade once, that is). Jades aren't really living creatures, more objects created to make up for the Mursaat's lack in melee prowess. Also, I'm not quite able to remember my lore off the top of my head at the moment(tired and hungry>.<) but I'm not even sure the creation of the jade armour and when Abaddon was first imprisoned correlate with one another. I could be wrong though

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 13, 2007, 01:50 PM // 13:50

Think about it though, Jade still have personalitys (well some atleast) eg. Carn the Destroyer the boss, there could have once been an Abaddon the Despoiler Warrior boss

he may or maynot have been sentient but once he gained the powers of the God of Truth/Lies it mattered not for he became a GOD!

And there is no mention of when the Jades were 1st made but we know the Mursaat have existed for Eons so presumably so have the Jades.

Cebe · Jun 13, 2007, 01:52 PM // 13:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sophitia Leafblade

He could have then used his powers to warped some of the mursaat who agreed to follow him into margonites which are more in his image

I was under the impression that the Margonites were once humans, and the first Margonite was a human sailing on the ocean which covered the crystal sea and desolation, being followed by forgotten forces, he prayed to Abaddon who saved him and he became Lord Jadoth, the first margonite. I was also under the impression that the margonites look half-fleshy because the realm of torment slowly kills you...as though you are buried and rotting...so to speak.

I hadn't noticed the resemblance between the Jade and Abaddon myself, but it's an interesting find.

Free Runner · Jun 13, 2007, 02:49 PM // 14:49

While i dont believe Abaddon was exactly a Jade Armor i do notice something about Abaddon...not just the fact he looks like a Jade from his face (or the other way around...the Jade look like him) but the back of his hands are made of something that looks exactly like Jade.

My theory was that the Jade Armors were originally his before he was chained by the gods,and the Mursaat simply took them...but what if the Jade Armors were made by Abaddon to represent another race that met its demise...a race that Abaddon was from...

Sophitia Leafblade · Jun 13, 2007, 03:21 PM // 15:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celestial Beaver

I was under the impression that the Margonites were once humans, and the first Margonite was a human sailing on the ocean which covered the crystal sea and desolation, being followed by forgotten forces, he prayed to Abaddon who saved him and he became Lord Jadoth, the first margonite. I was also under the impression that the margonites look half-fleshy because the realm of torment slowly kills you...as though you are buried and rotting...so to speak.

At no point was it been written that the Margonites were once human, it was left vague, most people presume they were human.

The Current Margonites are already presumably Dead, The Realm of Torment is section of the Underworld, the Realm of the dead. They are now no more than spirits which are given Physical form by Abaddon when entering the material Realm. Abaddon didnt have yet enough power in prophecies and this is why none came through the Door of Komalie when it was opened, since the titans (which are spirits too) take on aspects of there surroundings to make a physical form instead of requiring a body made for them by Abaddon.

Dead being the lose of ones own material body and the release of ones soul/spirit

mazik · Jun 13, 2007, 08:00 PM // 20:00

Does it say anywhere that Abaddon was anything before he was a God? Perhaps he was always the God of Water and Knowledge(and later on secrets). If this is true, perhaps the Mursaat's, when creating the Jade Armour, created them in Abaddon's likeness as perhaps a kind of mockery? Just a thought, because if I recall correctly, the only of the the five Gods that wasn't a God before was Grenth, and even then he became God before the time of man.

General Marzaq · Jun 13, 2007, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by mazik

Does it say anywhere that Abaddon was anything before he was a God?

"The Apostate" quest.

Reward Dialogue:

Quote:

"Thank you for protecting me. And for your help, I shall now fulfill my end of the bargain.
You may have wondered why I was being chased so vehemently by Abaddon's hunters, and I believe it is as simple as this: I do not believe Abaddon to be an eternal god. There were other gods before him, before he was imprisoned here. And I believe that while the power he uses cannot be destroyed, he maybe supplanted, as he supplanted his predecessor.
Use this knowledge for your benefit." - The Apostate

Sir Franz · Jan 11, 2008, 03:29 AM // 03:29

What we know
Abbadon has 6 eyed mask*, Jade armor have 6 eyed mask*, Margonites have 6 eyed mask*
Mursaat appose Titans
Mursaat appose The Seers
Titans serve Abbadon
Enchanted look like Murasaat
Margonites look like Murasaat

*unknown if merely decorative or if they have 6 eyes

My Theory
Abbadon was a Mursaat before ascending to godhood(possible before they developed spectral agony) and advanced the Margonite humans to look similar to Mursaat. The Mursaat did not join in Abbadons war agents the other gods (possible aligning against him) and incurred his wrath. The Enchanted are the armor of the Murasaat from the war with the Seers(who may reside in the mountains east of Ascalon)or the war with the gods(if they allied against Abbadon) that have been magically animated by the Frogotten in the years after the wars(the difference in looks from "modern" Murasaat armor could be because the styles changed, the cloth parts decayed, the frogotten altered the armors to animated them, or all of the above).